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I finally realized where some, perhaps much, of the communications issue confusion arises.
mick, I think, from your posts, that you believe the CABS that we see, is complete. I don't. It lacks clarification on jumps over 60; it defines, for example, 50 - 60 - 70 as showing 30, but how do you show 40 or 50? OK, it doesn't happen terribly often, but if 70 shows meld, why doesn't 75 show more meld? I've heard players say, it's to play, but WHY? It makes no sense.
I think you also take it as too rigid. The meaning of bids can change depending on the context...the bidding up to that point. A web page discussion is pretty much just a primer; it covers most situations. It takes a forum like this to cover *all* the potential situations, and from that, try to derive some basic principles which can be applied when something hasn't been explicitly covered...but does have analogues. 50 - 58 - 65 would be one: 50-58 and 50-60 are essentially the same basis. So the jumps should mean the same thing: meld-showing, NOT asking to play it.
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(09-01-2013, 10:57 PM)ToreadorElder Wrote: I finally realized where some, perhaps much, of the communications issue confusion arises.
mick, I think, from your posts, that you believe the CABS that we see, is complete. I don't. It lacks clarification on jumps over 60; it defines, for example, 50 - 60 - 70 as showing 30, but how do you show 40 or 50? OK, it doesn't happen terribly often, but if 70 shows meld, why doesn't 75 show more meld? I've heard players say, it's to play, but WHY? It makes no sense.
I think you also take it as too rigid. The meaning of bids can change depending on the context...the bidding up to that point. A web page discussion is pretty much just a primer; it covers most situations. It takes a forum like this to cover *all* the potential situations, and from that, try to derive some basic principles which can be applied when something hasn't been explicitly covered...but does have analogues. 50 - 58 - 65 would be one: 50-58 and 50-60 are essentially the same basis. So the jumps should mean the same thing: meld-showing, NOT asking to play it.
I, too, see the CABS as incomplete; but I am seeking completeness. I wouldn't want to teach someone something that was incomplete -- it wouldn't inspire confidence in the game or the teacher.
We have discussed Jump Control Bids and Jump Meld Bids in at least one thread. Where I think we left the discussion was: if your partner is still able to bid, then any and every jump bid should be considered a Jump Meld Bid. If your partner has passed, then any bid that is made is some sort of Control Bid. (After typing this, I would probably still reserve 60 as a Control Bid always.)
Also thinking on the fly... for any Jump Bid that crosses the 60 threshold, simply counts the increments used regardless of if the increment was 1 or 5.
These are good steps toward completeness, no?
It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing all your life. -- Mickey Mantle
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I'd like to have the CABS system actually posted somewhere, so it can be broken down from there. The problem I have had with trying to put it on "paper" is that the CABS system still has different meanings for different people in different bidding scenarios. Lately I've been thinking about how to define it for beginners for a solid skeleton base.
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The baseline can be done. Been thinking about writing that up, along with some fundamental guiding principles for those trickier scenarios. Remember, 90% of the players you'll ever meet online, are clueless card-tossers who've never given a moment's thought beyond what you see on a web page, in terms of bidding and play. So when you toss them a curve ball, they're almost *always* gonna whiff it. They know ONLY those sequences that have been explicitly detailed. I can't necessarily handle every sequence, but I can give you a good grounding that'll get you through most hands.
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I'd like to see what you come with.
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For those whom are wondering where this leads...
I believe this is the next place you want to look for TE's principles on bidding:
http://www.powerpinochle.com/forum/showt...hp?tid=568
It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing all your life. -- Mickey Mantle
